To FWB, or not to FWB...
Oct 3, 2008 Anon asks [edited for length]:
I've been married 14 years and I still think my wife is attractive. But she doesn't: she hates the stretch marks, the belly fat, the size of her waist...I believe she has no sex drive; she thinks sex is the only aspect of our relationship that I continue to cultivate. She is definitely depressed, and has been taking anti-depressants for years. They aren't working, from my perspective.
She thinks oral sex is dirty (giving or receiving). Bottom line: I haven't had a blowjob in 18 years. Eighteen years is a very long time, especially if you really like bj's...
Bottom line: we have had intercourse twice in the past six months...I'm tired of flying solo... I have resorted to flirting with Baristas when I buy my morning coffee: that's the provocative high water mark of the day.
Should I just throw up my hands and admit defeat? I am tempted to find a FWB and just tolerate the status quo for the sake of our four year old son.
Any thoughts?
BusyDad:
First, let me apologize on behalf of both the Stark Raving Dads. We love this site. It has not crashed and burned. I believe that the fundamentals of this blog are strong. We just put the writing of this blog on hold because we were helping to draft a bail out plan…
[Cue the Back in Black or Momma Said Knock You Out, depending on which genre of pump music you prefer]
*Puts on advice hat, cracks knuckles, sprays keyboard with Dust-Off XL*
Mark this date on your calendar. This is what they call the Tipping Point. The day BusyDad lost a whole hell of a lot of readers. I like the funny. I prefer the funny. Almost always. But I have strong opinions sometimes and this subject is one of them. Some of you will rally with me. Most of you will be disgusted. But I’m taking a stand. An understandably unpopular one – especially in the family/parenting blog arena. So be it.
Sex is the cornerstone of every more-than-friends relationship. Without it, you might as well draft up your Articles of Incorporation and run your household as an LLC. At least you can deduct your Staples receipts. Your situation, my friend, is dire. I don’t care if your wife feels unattractive. YOU think she’s attractive and that should be enough for her to say “you know what? This is my husband, not a Top Model judge. This is part of my job.” YES, I said job. And if the roles were reversed, I’d say was your job to suck up your insecurities and do your duty too. Sex is not a male vs female thing. The provision of sex is the responsibility of BOTH parties to each other. As much as feeding and clothing that 4-year old.
That being said, it is also wrong to straight up tell her “it is your job as my spouse to have sex with me.” That doesn’t go over well. Don’t test it. Please. I said that as the basis for what I am going to say further below. The diplomatic way to do this is to show her that you think she is attractive. Be horny around her. Simple as that. Stare at her a little longer when she’s changing. Playfully tease her. Little actions. If it really is her self-image, these things may help.
If that doesn’t work, then be up front. But tactfully. One day while you are just watching TV in the living room (don’t do this in bed because then she will think you are just throwing out words to make it happen), tell her straight up. Tell her you are a human being, and human beings need sex. In order to keep you happy with the fact that you are going to be her partner for the rest of your life, this need must be met. And then ask her – “Tell me what I need to do to make this happen?” If she cares for you at all, she will give you a real answer. Who knows, it could be something that YOU are not doing for her, and you have mistaken it as a self-image thing all this time. Bottom line, you need to address this thing head on. No mincing words. This is as important as if you lost your job. You need to do something about it NOW.
What if you do all of the above and nothing changes? Here is where 90% of people would say “but if this doesn’t work, remember, you guys took a vow for better or worse, so accept it and move on. Find a hobby.” Here’s where I will veer off Main St. and traverse the Highway to Hell. I say FUCK THAT. You live only once. I’ll be damned if you live that life for someone else (who is not your child). In 30-40 years, you will be dead. Gone. If your wife doesn’t care enough about a simple little thing that will impact your happiness so much, then you find someone who will. You have done your due diligence. Whether you take the high road (I would recommend this) and seek a divorce, or take the low road (not recommended for logistical and counts-against-you-in-court reasons) and find an FWB or seek “professional assistance,” you will be a happier, more complete person. I truly believe that as a happier person, you will become a better parent as well. Misery and frustration permeates everything you do, and it WILL trickle down to your child. I applaud you for putting your child before yourself, as I do in absolutely every decision I make, but I’m arguing that doing this would in the long run be a good thing for your child. A parent who is happy and at peace is always a better parent.
As far as the oral thing? One step at a time buddy. Even the lotto is paid in yearly increments.
Thank you… thank you… hank you… ank you… you … ou
Where’d everybody go?
Mr Lady
First, I'm going with the blowjob part. Tough shit for you, brother. I really really love Twizzlers more than I love coffee or chocolate or tiramisu, and I'm deathly allergic to red food coloring, so I haven't had one in as long as you haven't had a hummer. You deal.
As for the sex, (and this is where Jim AND I lose readers) tough shit for her, brother. She signed a contract. Part of that contract is the ol' in-out in-out.
I am aware how shitty that sounds, and that I am breaking girl-code on this one, but I've been on your end of this deal, and I can say from experience that it is the shittiest, most damaging thing a spouse can do. It fucks with your head. Quite frankly, it pisses me off.
I would say that the very first thing you need to do is help her get to the root of the issue. Either you're right and she has poor body image, or she's got some serious depression, or she doesn't trust you, or there's something deeper. Either way, I'm betting there isn't much you can do to help. She needs to speak TO A DOCTOR. Without you. But I'll come back to that.
The very next thing you do is get the girl some clothes that fit. She will fight you on this one. If you're in the position, get someone who cares about her (mom, best friend, etc) to go to Macy's with your credit card and buy the girl a WARDROBE. Nothing, nothing is harder for a girl with bad self image than spending a bunch of money on clothes, and nothing, nothing will make her feel better in the end than looking good the way she is now. She cannot wear size 10 clothes anymore. They need to go to goodwill while she's at the mall. If you're not in the position, then go to Target once a week and get her a new outfit in the right size. Save the outfits in a closet until you've got a wardrobe, and while she's out at Starbucks, burn the old one.
The very next thing you do is be honest. Be sort of brutally honest. She is asking you to go without something human beings need. Just look at how well celibacy worked out for the Catholic Priesthood. It's not a want, it's not a bargaining chip; it's a bodily function. If she doesn't like that, well, she created this situation. She needs to deal with the repercussions.
Here's where we get back to the doctor thing: You need to sit her down and tell her flat out what the deal is. My personal talk went a little like this...
You are killing me slowly. I cannot handle this anymore. I am a human, I am a sexual being, and you are being cruel. You are making me question my own sanity. I have tried everything I can think of to make this work and it's not working. You do not control my sex life, you are merely a part of it. I am taking this back. Something is wrong with you, and I won't make excuses for it anymore. I won't try to figure out what I did wrong anymore. You have X amount of time to go talk to a doctor and figure out what is wrong, and find a way to fix it, or I'm out. We cannot survive this. I love you and I want to be WITH YOU, but you are not playing fair. I'm giving you back the responsibility here.
That talk came after my 15th month sans coitus. I was ready to jump my 80 year old landlord that didn't speak English. It worked, and I think it worked because I stopped pussy footing around. Sex is such a taboo subject in families; you can't talk about it with your kids, you can't discuss issues with your spouse, and I think that's ridiculous. If it was a stuffed up nose, or an intestinal issue, this wouldn't be happening. You've got to bring it out in the open.
And dude, if she won't try to help the situation, I'd really suggest getting the hell out. Cheating is low and sleazy and you're above that. But withholding sex, in this girl's opinion, is mental abuse. Don't take it sitting down.
(Also, anti-depressants...there are anti-depressants for woman that incredibly boost the sex drive. Wellbutrin is one. Look into it.)
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Reader Comments (13)
When my son was two, my marriage hit a really rough patch. We were more like roommates than partners. There was finger pointing etc. etc. Our sex life was non existent. Body image issues are very hard to overcome. My son will be 6 in a few weeks and I still have them. They can be crippling but they should not be a crutch.
A big turning point was the porn I found on the computer. I was hurt and angry but had to take responsibility. I made a conscious decision to figure out what was going on in my head and fix it. Your wife needs to do the same. Cheating on her is not the answer. What if she can put the pieces back together only to find you've been unfaithful? That may do irreparable damage to the marriage.
Even though I hate my thighs, muffin top and saddle bags, my husband doesn't. He tells me I'm beautiful and sexy and cops a feel whenever he can. Him focusing on my body makes me uncomfortable, but I know it comes from a place of love so I get over myself, put on the nightie, light the candles and let go. The times I feel most desirable? When he gives me a long hot kiss and walks away. Then I know he wants me, but he isn't pressuring me.
If she's that uncomfortable with her body, help her make peace with it. Taking Yoga and Pilates ($5 a class through my city's park and rec) made me feel strong. That helped a lot. A new haircut works wonders. Perhaps not a whole new wardrobe (clothes can be a security blanket) but one well fitting, well made outfit with a kick ass pair of shoes should help her see herself the way you do.
She needs help on her own and you both may need help together. Sorry to hijack your comments.
I think you both answered this completely the right way. I have nothing funny to say, cuz simply, this is not a funny subject.
Whoa. A SRD post?!...instead of the usual "ding" when a new post pops up in my reader, this time it actually said "Dude. You're not going to believe this." Glad to see you guys are back!
Also, hats off to Busy Dad for working "bail out" and "Main Street" into a post about marriage. Way to optimize for organic search, brother.
This is a tough one, so I'll focus on what I know. Vanity. I agree with Mr Lady. Wardrobe is absolutely key to boosting a womans self esteem. And, for whatever reason, dropping 400 bones at Fredricks doesn't seem to work. I think the shopping spree is a terrific idea. And, if you have the means, be sure to spend a little extra on a really nice black dress...maybe an a line. Take her out to dinner in it an tell her she's beautiful It helps self esteem if, even for one night, she feels like a lady again.
Second, trash EVERYTHING in her closet. Do it when she's not there. I can't tell you what a downer it can be to them to have small sized stuff in their wardrobe that they think that someday they'll fit into again. If it happens? Great. Go buy new smaller sized stuff. THe small sizes serve as a constant reminder that she's gained weight, and isn't losing any.
If none of that works, I'd suggest some counseling. You owe it to her to at least try. Intimacy is important in a relationship...and BD andLady are right. Its hard to make it work without it.
At first I didnt believe it when I saw ya'll in my reader. But any extra of the two of you is always good for me.
And wow, what a comeback topic. So.... interesting.
I think your friend Anon here probably has exhausted a lot of his effort. Hopefully the tips you gave him on building self esteem get him laid. Seriously. Everybody needs sex. More specifically, good sex. When its bad, you dont want it. I dont care how badly you want to get off. I had bad sex for years and I got more excited thinking about when I could go solo. Now? Psh. I have vowed to NEVER have bad sex again. It's a deal breaker. Call me shallow if you must (wouldnt be the first time) but I am who I am. If you suck in the sack, you're never coming back. (oooooh snap. I just thought that up. heh. sorry)
I hope that Anon gets what he's looking for. Not only a good lay (and if he really spins it right, a bj) but a way to connect with his wife again. Good sex also equals intimacy. Being able to connect with a person on that level is something that nothing can touch.
And if he cant.... well.... time for some soul searching buddy. FWB only last so long. A majority of FWB's dont work out because of the F part. Sex and intimacy go hand in hand. If you find a FWB who makes you FEEL something again after so long, then you probably really shouldn't be with your wife. Believe me, I've tried the FWB and that time, it just did NOT work because I was emotionally invested in that person and I wanted more than friends. Sex can very easily blur the line.
Comment. Much... too... long. SRD does that to me.
Thanks for this post. Made me look at my relationship with my DH. It's been a while for us too. To much stress, new baby, blah, blah, blah. I just haven't been in the mood, or if I am, baby wants mama. Poor husband, he needs some mama time too.
Communication Communication Communication.
My marriage has two things working against it in the sex department - I have a chronic kidney disease (I was constantly worn out) and my wife has esteem issues about her body. We were married for several years before I had a breakdown and we finally had a frank conversation about sex. We talked like we had never talked before about intimacy, and we decided that we needed a new standard. Now, we did not set goals or anything like that, except to both make more of an effort to be honest about when we wanted sex.
Now we are very honest about what we do and don't want, what we will and will not do for each other. How about this - she's 34 and just got braces. Yeah, I have not shot at the bj for a long time (as if it happened before the braces!). We are sure to talk with each other, and that has helped both of us out.
You guys were just in time - I was about to send you a snotty email asking if you needed a new topic or something!
I suspect Anon's wife isn't getting enough cardio exercise. This can be really hard to do with a toddler unless you have the $$ to spring for a health club with childcare. But I STRONGLY suggest trying exercise before meds. It will help with both body image and sex drive.
I don't think you guys are going that far out on a limb at all suggesting that withholding sex (barring some sort of serious medical condition) is grounds for divorce.
Okay, so I am a Moron. I am going to ask even though it will send laughter through the rafters. What the Hell is WFB? I understand the connotation of a hoochie on the side, but don't get the abbreviation.
That said, the most important sex organ we have is the brain. If your wife needs more medical help, get it for her. But also do things to turn her on and I don't mean leopard print men's bikini underwear. Nothing get's me crazier than Mr. Weasel mopping the kitchen without being asked. What's hot is that he knows that it makes me happy and takes a dreaded chore off of my to do list. That says he thought about me and cares. That makes me hot. Do things that you know make her happy and relaxed. Show her you love her without copping a feel. Unless she has a serious mental condition, she will be coming after you( a few stiff drinks don't hurt either).
First off, Jim said F-U-C-K!
Ok, after I got over that shock, I totally agree with BOTH of their posts. Withholding sex is emotional abuse and unfortunately, its something women do way too often and more unfortunately, don't realize how wrong it is. I do agree that sex is part of marriage and there are times I've taken one for the team even when I didn't want to because I do realize its important. Sex with my husband isn't normally a chore because we talk about it. We discuss all aspects of it - what we like, what we don't like, etc etc etc. While I may not find myself attractive, I know my hubby does and it does help.I, like most women who have had children, also have body issues - saggy boobs, jiggly thighs, inner tube stomach, and flabby ass, just to name a few areas that I hate.
I personally feel that FWB is a bullshit way to handle the situation. That means you are just burying your head in the sand and denying the problem and enabling her to do the same. Either shit or get off the pot. You either have to decide to stay with her and hope it gets better or accept it the way it is or get the hell out. I really hate when people say they are staying together for the sake of the kids. Personally I feel all you are accomplishing is making each other miserable AND giving your kids a skewed perspective on marriage. Now, that is not to say that you jump ship and bail at the first sign of trouble but dude, if you are talking about a fuck buddy, this has progressed WAAAAY past the first sign of trouble.
Whatever you decide, best of luck to you both and I hope it works out whichever way will make you happier!
WELL DONE on both parts.. I was anxious to see this post, just took me a while to get over here to check it out. Sex is a VERY big part of a relationship.. and when a partner is holding out that is just plain UNFAIR.. Great job on the answers guys.. and good luck to ANON.. I hope it works out for you.
I have no idea what a WFB is , but it sounds like it violates your marriage vows. I am a firm believer in finishing breakfast before starting lunch. Sit her down, explain, and let her decide, do you want a divorce? Do you want to stay married? if so then here is the deal... either fix the situation or end it. OR you can ask your wife if she minds you dating, get it in writing but I kinda hope you don't do that.
Good topic and I know I'm coming in late to the discussion. Ooops, bad choice of words. OK, I'm chiming in after the train has already left the station. Anyway, tough issue to discuss with anyone including your spouse. Withholding sex is very wrong, but I agree it happens all the time in relationships for one reason or another. I for one try a two-pronged approach when I want more sex. I do all the "little" things to make her life much easier including anticipating what she might want in the short term (a diet coke) or washing her car. Secondly, when I have the opportunity to compliment her on something outside body image, sex or of similar topic, I go all out like "Wow, what an awesome Thanksgiving meal you made for our family and guests." Of course, I am sincere, and don't just pick compliments at random or they'll be shot down quickly. I'm not sure what an "FWB" is, but I have an idea and it sounds bad!
F-friend
W-with
B-benefits
Also between these two, I still haven't found any advise I disagree with.